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Fuck Iraq - It Starts by valis Fuck Iraq - It Starts by valis
I'd already submitted this, but it sure as hell seems to belong in this new section. So here it goes.

"If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce, in all sincerity, to every corner of the world, that America's global interventions have come to an end, and inform Israel that is it no longer the 51st state of the USA but henceforth - oddly enough - a foreign country. I would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to the victims. There would be more than enough money. One year's military budget of $330 billion is equal to more than $18,000 an hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born.

That's what I'd do on my first three days in the White House. On the fourth day, I'd be assassinated."

From 'Rogue State' - by William Blum
Add a Comment:
 
:iconims-corner:
ims-corner Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
strong like :D
i support u :D
Reply
:iconfak-her-1993:
FAK-HER-1993 Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2010  Student Photographer
fuck u first... kos ommék el3ahira
Reply
:iconurikson:
Urikson Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2010
While I don't support the occupation of Iraq and I do support a creation of Palestinian state (two even), you can't say the Arabs are entirely without blame for their current predicament - they did attack Israel numerous time in the past, carried out some bloody attacks against the US and rioted often in Europe.

Furthermore, there's a lot of inter-Arab violence that can't be blamed on the US and I think it is the cause of most deaths rather than the US. Already there are/ were civil wars in Lebanon, Yemen, Algier and even the PA.

In a conflict such as this both sides have to make cessations.
Reply
:iconmustafa-d:
Mustafa-d Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2009   Interface Designer
fuck ur self first
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2009  Professional Photographer
You're an idiot, and if you actually looked at the deviation before insulting me you'd understand why.

It's ignorant idiots like you that have gotten us here in the first place.
Reply
:iconjumara:
jumara Featured By Owner Jul 22, 2008
u are stupid u know that? shit for brains if u submitted this shit :P
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Jul 22, 2008  Professional Photographer
Hahaha

What a stupid, stupid cocksucker.

Brilliant comment.

God Bless the Romanian education system...
Reply
:iconjumara:
jumara Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2008
true true :P cred ca facem forum la asta :)
Reply
:iconunknownmantra:
unknownmantra Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2008
Palestinian terrorists are in violation of more U.N. resolutions than Israel.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2008  Professional Photographer
Sorry, but you're either massively mis-informed, or purposely trying to be ';provocative'. Regardless, in both cases, you're just wrong.

First of all - the people you're referring to as 'terrorists' are nothing of the sort, no matter which government chooses to label them as such in order to make people like you feel better about watching them get brutally killed. They have been fighting an invading, occupying alien force for more than 50 years. If not surrendering, and not being over to get screwed makes them terrorists, then sure, yeah...

Second - EVEN if we assume you're just bouncing around imperialist zionist terminology - the simple fact is that Israel has violated more UN resolutions than any other country on the planet. That you dare say otherwise, as I said - shows either willful ignorance or a complete abandonment of reality.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Reply
:iconunknownmantra:
unknownmantra Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2008
Ok, I am ashamed of myself. Anyway, terrorists are the people who are suicide bombers and people rocket attacking civilians of Israel. Those people are terrorists. How is this a wrong description of terrorists. They are terrorists. Although I didn't research it, I hope I can safely assume that murdering civilians violates U.N. international law, regardless if the murderer got screwed by that civilian's government or not.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2010  Professional Photographer
Israel is in CONTINUED violation of over 90 UN Resolutions. It is in CONTINUED violation of almost everything in the Geneva convention. In the last 8 years, the Israeli's lost NINE people to the so-called Hamas Rockets that every news agency in the US makes a big deal about - in the same 8 years, the Palestinians have lost over 13 THOUSAND people to the murderous acts of the Israeli Army, the so-called IDF, to US supplied weapons and planes, and bombs.

When you say you 'didn't research it' you're not kidding, are you? Jeez.
Reply
:iconimmortalblabla:
immortalblabla Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2008
are u crazy ... i was preparing myself to use this ==> :stupid: ... but when i saw the real message of the picture i was reliefed :lmao: .. this is nice .. i like it .. :lmao:
Reply
:iconrucatalyst:
ruCatalyst Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2007
well well well my good dreaming friend... i will personally see to it that i contribute to so noble a "if i were..." cuz I "will be..." i just hope that i dont die but who gives a fuck, eh? i just might assassinate myself... teehee! wat a wonderful world of "if i were...".
"will be..." is a painful place. "will try..." is... well... is painted in stories of the Big Crunch and the Big Freeze...but ya know what... if you go b the fucking president id b so proud and yet hysterically scared ... oh laughter... cuz we just might assassinate ourselves!

ALL GREAT CIVILIZATIONS DEVOID OF THEIR DOOM HAVE NOT MET THE END QUITE YET!!!!!!!!!!! its all doom my friends cuz its what it is! doom is doom!

once one said "such is such and such mean life to me"
another said "then the death of u marks oh such life to me"
and then the Bastille fell... no weapons eh? BUT WHAT THE HELL!!?? HAHA!

how marvelous

how simply miserable... but... valis... are you really that miserable?!? i never heard of such from "if i were..."

nevertheless... i know "I AM!" (no bunnies here) oh tormenting thoughts u reminds me of yet AGAIN!

though we are monsters
though we are freaks
are we something
to say in the least
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2007  Professional Photographer
Just read this now, and I realize - I have NO IDEA what you're on about?
Reply
:iconlost-deviant:
Lost-Deviant Featured By Owner Oct 25, 2007  Hobbyist Photographer
Propaganda at its finest.
Reply
:iconahmedart:
AhmedART Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2007  Student Digital Artist
thx its really amazing ...
Reply
:icongekigengar5:
Gekigengar5 Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2007
Your facts are true, but what do you want America to do now? Do you want the U.S. and British troops to pull out.

Yes Bush went into Iraq with bad intelligence reports and false reports of WMD's. But the mission has changed in Iraq from searching for WMDs. To establishing a new stable government. Yes we should not be there in the first place.

But guess what we are. If we leave now, Iraq will fall into corrupt hands. America and England must stay in there to ensure we don't just abandon our efforts all of your soldier's deaths in vain.

I hope you know that Huessien has killed around 300,00 Shia Muslims, Kurds.

And the 100,000-200,00 Iraqi's killed from Sanctions from the Gulf War...So you justify Huessien invading Kuwait?

The coalition came to the defense of Kuwait.

Other than that.

I must say having taken Typography 1 at my college, this is a very successful piece.

The big bolds "Fuck Iraq" work well in grabbing the attention of the reader, and then makes them come in for a closer look of the little details.

I just don't like how you bash America so much...I mean Every country has its faults. Saddam was a tyrant.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2007  Professional Photographer
This was originally created before the US launched its invasion.

Otherwise, no - America and England need not stay there. They've made enough of a mess, and launched a civil war, and the sooner they get out the less civilians will die in the crossfire between the Iraqi resistance the illegitimate invading US and UK armies.

Soldiers are dying in vain everyday, and the only way that'll stop is if they LEAVE. They're not making things better, despite what the politicians tell you. Every month you read the same headline "WORSE MONTH YET" - and I've seen that headline almost every month since the invasion began. They are NOT making it better. Also - they are simply unwanted, and despite their claims and what you may believe they are NOT there to stabilize the country, they are there to take it over, just like they gave Afghanistan over to an AMERICAN PASSPORT carrying president who used to work for an American Oil Company. I kid you not. Check for yourself...

And honestly, I understand your intentions are good, but I am frankly quite sick of the notion that the 'West' came to Iraq to save the poor Shia Muslims and Kurds and Kuwaitis from the Evil Terror of Saddam Hussein. Why don't you leave us to deal with our own terrors? In fact, if our local terrors weren't in fact sponsored, nurtured, and supplied with military hardware BY the US we would've had little trouble getting rid of them ourselves in the first place. The simple fact is we don't need the West to 'save us from ourselves' - in fact - the very notion is implicitly racist. Think about it. You'll see what I mean. We are not children. We've came up with writing, with mathematics, with algebra, with philosophy and various other things. We just didn't invent the GUN - that's how things got to where they are today.

Regarding the piece itself - typography, etc - again, I appreciate your comments, I've taken no typography courses myself, I just go with my gut, and make sure my eyes aren't complaining.

And the only reason I might seem to disproportionately 'bash' the US is because only the US is imposing its will on the whole planet. Read up on the PNAC (the Project for the New American Century) - you'll be horrified.

Anyway, thanks again, and I hope you take my comments at face value, I am not trying to insult or offend you. I'm just making that clear cause apparently, according to some people, I lack 'tact'.
Reply
:icongekigengar5:
Gekigengar5 Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2007
Ill go with what your saying about wanting USA and UK to leave i want our troops home and safe. But if they leave. It will leave the currently weak government and many factions to fight in the power gap from the leaving of coalition forces. It could leave a long civil war like that which ravaged Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated.

But you did not answer my question about the Coalition coming to Kuwait's aid. Yes UN sanctions caused many deaths. But if Heussein went unchecked he may of invading many other middle eastern nations.

Do you think Kuwait should of been left alone...under Heussein's will?
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2007  Professional Photographer
And you seem to have missed my main point, which in fact addresses BOTH those issues.

Let the Middle East deal with it's own mess. The USA has no business playing headmaster.
Reply
:icongekigengar5:
Gekigengar5 Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2007
I know that.

But I was asking what you thought of Saddam's actions. And it was a yes US led coalition but many Middle eastern nations too part as well.

Saddam could of gone out and conquered many other middle eastern nations as he had the 3rd largest army.

And he was a Totalitarian Tyrant, who ruled by fear.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2007  Professional Photographer
When you say "a Totalitarian Tyrant, who ruled by fear" - are you referring to George Bush :) ?
Reply
:icongekigengar5:
Gekigengar5 Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2007
Please answer my question...come on witty remarks aren't going anywhere.

I was Refering to Saddam.

1) We are not a totalitarian government

2)he may bring fear to select Islamic nations

3) i don't like bush either but i support my country.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Jun 17, 2007  Professional Photographer
It's not a witty remark. My original point stands. Regardless of what may or may not be going on in the Middle East, it's NOT the US's job to 'fix' it. It's none of their business. You STILL seem to think it IS your business. It's just not. It's none of your business. It's that simple.

And - if you're not a totalitarian government - then what are you? Who won that election? Gore? Bush? Says who? You're making weapons like you're planning to bomb the whole solar system. You're torturing people all around the planet in secret prisons. You're breaking the Geneva convention in all sorts of ways. Read 'Rogue State' by William Blum. Wake up and smell the coffee.

2? Who may bring fear to select Islamic nations? I have no clue what you're talking about?

3. Support your country? Right or wrong ;) ? I fondly recall a writer saying that's like saying "I support my mother, sober or drunk." - sorry dude, you're not supposed to support a country, you're supposed to support values, and when the country no longer supports the values, then it's time to re-assess the country, change it into something worth supporting. Right now the USA is the world's No.1 Hate/War/Fear monger. It's the No.1 manufacturer of weapons. The No.1 violator of international laws. The No. 1 source of solid waste, and pollution. The list goes on and on and on. It's just not right.

So when, on top of all this, I get this whole 'white man's burden' thing - with the so-called '1st world' thinking it has the moral standing to 'fix' countries that have had longer headaches than the US has been a constitution, sorry, but that's just incredibly arrogant, not to mention infantile.
Reply
(1 Reply)
:icondamir-zg:
damir-zg Featured By Owner May 10, 2007  Hobbyist Photographer
i was browsing your gallery and when i saw this is your most popular work i tought "shit why are people like that!"
because i saw fuck iraq and not the small letters but when i saw them i calmed down

good message i support u!
Reply
:iconforgivenfoundone:
forgivenfoundone Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2007  Hobbyist Writer
Vary good piece my friend, nice gallery as well.
Reply
:iconreedmyteers:
reedmyteers Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2007
oh god u scared me there babe
first glance *fall on floor crying*
secound glance *sighs*
god bless iraq
Reply
:iconthe-mistress:
the-mistress Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2007
beautiful piece! It says a lot about the conflict that has been poisoning the middle east for so long! I stand firm with your arguments! Why so much hate in this world?
Because it is easier to point at someone else than to realize our own mistakes. The nuclear bombs dropped over Hiroshima and Nagasaki are proof enough. So much for learning from experience.
So much for our happily ever after!
Reply
:iconhawkins006:
hawkins006 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2007
Too cool. And too true.
Reply
:icontyandaga:
Tyandaga Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2006  Student Artisan Crafter
The boldness of the words get confusing from a distance, but I agree with you.
Reply
:icondrlew:
drlew Featured By Owner Oct 8, 2006
so how many muslim sites have you posted anti war messages. none? really? oh wait, you're not anti war, you're just anti America. the only thing to remember is that America is only ar war because WAR WAS DECLARED ON US.

I think I'll make a response to your piece saying, "ISLAM get out of our PLANES"

bastard.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2006  Professional Photographer
The depth and reach of your ignorance of both history and politics is staggering.

Matched only in fact, by the rudeness and intolerence you display, calling somebody you don't know a bastard for expressing their opinion.

Quite pathetic.

If this is what the Bush camp is like, no wonder they've declared war on humanity.

And I won't call you a bastard, because - really - it takes one to know one.
Reply
:icondrlew:
drlew Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2006
Honestly, no personal offense to you. And hopefully, you can rethink your opinions of me as well. I am not of the Bush camp, however, I am passionate about America, the Nation and the Concept. This country is, in my opinion, the world's last hope for freedom and REAL human rights. Many people find it convenient to blame Pres. Bush for so many of the world's problems, when the problems existed long before he took office 6 years ago, even before his father more than a decade ago.

Pres. Bush is responding to an attack on America, and what it stands for. He was not looking for trouble, trouble found him, and all of us. If there is a hub from where this world's problems and conflicts stem, it isn't Bush, or America. Many of the world's conflicts stem from Islamic origins. and have for a long time.
[link]

Listen, I am NOT of the opinion that all Muslims are evil, and I do not hate all Muslims. However, it is wrong to ignore that there are many Muslims that declared a holy war on Western Civilization, and few Muslims who have come to its defense.

You seem intelligent by your writing. So please tell my why Islam has to be at odds with the freedoms that America and the rest of Western Civilization stands for: Religion, Expression (like we're both exercising), Equality among all races/sexes, etc... I have to believe that most of it comes from lack of exposure to these ideas throughout the Islamic nations. But that does not explain why obviously intelligent individuals, like yourself, align with those who oppose the West.

Within America, most of it seems to come from the Left's obsession with political party affiliation. It is almost a cult mentality, in which 'the party' is their icon.

Worldwide, either Islam collectively, or at least a radical branch of Islam is aggressively creating conflict in the world. To what end? To spread its intolerant belief system? Christianity (I'm not a Christian) had its reformation and outgrew its flaws of intolerance. Islam hasn't, and for its survival's sake needs to.

People that live in a peaceful existance will only put up with so much before they take matters into their own hands. Right now, The aggressors of Islam are dealing with the politicians. If they push too much farther, they will find themselves face to face with the people. And we do not want that.

You and I are artists, visionaries, and thinkers. If the conflict we are seeing unfolds much further, I'm afraid we will have to put down our tools of creation and take up weapons of destruction. Let's pray it doesn't come to that. The reasons for my responding to your work in the first place is that I feel your work brings us closer the that day in which I never want to see. I think it is important that you know how your work influences others. Your piece affected me the same way my bastard comment affected you. Neither are productive. Peace to you, bro.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2006  Professional Photographer
I'm sorry, much as I'd like to actually read and respond to anything you may have said, reasonable or not, I still can't seem to find the bit where you apologize for having called me a bastard.

*checks again*

Nope.

Nothing there, and until there is, you're just an uncouth waste of my time.
Reply
:icondrlew:
drlew Featured By Owner Oct 9, 2006
I guess progress stops until you're no longer offended. So, it is easy for me to retract the Bastard comment, and I apologize for the offense.

Back to the topic we were engaged in, do you agree with any of my opinions? Maybe I just don't quite understand what it is you are trying to acomplish by creating political editorial on an art site.
Reply
:iconzatox:
Zatox Featured By Owner Oct 6, 2006
lol, chill man !!

I'm not really a soldier, im currently in training, working for the "marechausse" (militairy police) in the netherlands.

I do get your point do, it's just a prank by me . But that thing what happend to nickberg is a horrible way to die. He did not deserve that, on that you've got to agree with me !!.

I did not meen to upset you or anything like that, just a prank to see your reaction,
but i know what you meen. they should leave iraq alone and fight their own war, but everybody is just helping the people out. Also, they planted a very devistating attack on america, on the WTC.

They dont had the right to do that because there are forener troops in iraq !!
They espicially do not have the right to decapitate forener people !!

(if i in any way hurted you, i apologize) - (dont mind the spelling, bear in mind that im dutch)
Reply
:iconzatox:
Zatox Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2006
Get the fuck away from iraq, yeah right, Kill all who stand against freedom.

this is a "shit" piece. They should throw a "nuke" at iraq.
Fuck iraq, fuck those people living in it, fuck alqaida, fuck hezbollah.

Go to google - pictures and type in nickberg, here's your iraq.
Not satisfied !!, search for the video and see what they did.

Ask the opinion of the soldiers, they have seen far more than us.
Dutch, italy, amarican, iraq's and canadien. they are getting killed out there while whe sit safely at home typing such stupid messages and speculating !!

God help me when i'm in iraq, they all look hostile and dangerous, you can trust nobody there.
At the moment im sitting home, waiting for a call to "go", so god help me !!

(Q) Let me ask you ?, have you seen the face of a enemy while he is pointing that rifle on you'r head !!
(Q) Let me ask you someting again ?, How would you be if your sitting there, waiting for your head to come of with a knife/sword that's not bin sharpen for a few years, bon appetite !!.

(A)
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2006  Professional Photographer
Oh, and as for Nick Berg - even his father has stated that he blames George Bush for his son's death.

Not that I could give a crap, but you might want to consider that.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2006  Professional Photographer
A shit piece?

Sure. I tried finding the Shit Category in Deviant Art, failed, and ended up putting it under wallpapers - I'm so sorry if that confused you.

Nick Berg was an American businessman who went to Iraq to profiteer from the US Invasion of a soverign country. I could care less what happened to your pal Nick.

The soldiers? Any soldier with more than 2 brain cells wants to leave Iraq, and knows that he's been sent there under false pretences to satisfy a rabid lying White House.

Most countries with half a brain are bringing their troops back home, of course, the US, under the insipid leadership of a bloodthirsty administration will be the last to go, but so it goes...

When you're in Iraq? If you've been there, let me tell you this; the reason you're scared and everybody looks hostile is because you do not belong there, and you are there as an invader, and occupier, and as a murderer. You were told they had WMD's - that was a lie. You were told they'd submit to Shock & Awe - that was a lie. You were told they'd receive you with flowers and thanks - that, too, was a lie. You are now being told you are fighting 'insurgents', that - suprise - is a lie. You are fighting a people who are fighting a hostile invasion.

As for your questions?

1. Your enemy isn't pointing a rifle at my head because I have done him no wrong.

2. I wouldn't be very happy, however, I dare say I wouldn't put myself in that situation in the first place. Aiding an illegal, hostile invasion and then bitching about the consequences is infantile.
Reply
:iconcanuckistani:
Canuckistani Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2006
Shit man!

Nice. I like it. Love the little facts.

I agree with you completly. The United States is laughing at international law and saying "Fuck off UN.". Very nice image.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Jun 28, 2006  Professional Photographer
Thanks for taking the time to check it out, and thanks for your thoughts, and your position.

Now if only Canadian troops could get out of Afghanistan and Iraq ;)

But really, thanks. You wouldn't believe how much flak I got over this image.
Reply
:iconzackboomer:
zackboomer Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2007
Now we're out of Iraq. Yeah I know this is a year and a half later :)
Reply
:iconcanuckistani:
Canuckistani Featured By Owner Jun 28, 2006
We have troops in Iraq?

I knew that we are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, but.... The US actually convinced us to go to Iraq? Oh, I am so disapointed with my government. =(

*goes to closet and grabs picket sign used in Peace Marches and heads out into the street*
Reply
:iconmercenarykris23:
mercenarykris23 Featured By Owner May 25, 2006   Photographer
whew. another fiery argument.

Well, Valis, I must credit you with giving me another reason to dislike political arguments.
I am not being ignorant, I'm just fed up with the monotonous "Rabble-rabble-rabble" that it causes.

Politics aside, it's a very eye-catching deviation. I wasn't even thinking pro-war or anti-war when I clicked it. I just saw this big, bold "FUCK IRAQ" and went "WTF? How did he get away with that?"

Very well-done artwork. I thought about saying something about the listed facts, but I think inkdevil tore into you enough on that one.

Besides, I don't believe anyone's numbers anymore.

Don't take it personally. I'm just a cynical person.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner May 27, 2006  Professional Photographer
I hate politics.

I get involved mainly when the Mob has pushed everything so far out of whack that I can't even focus on what I would much rather be doing; making music, writing, etc.

The rabble rabble, as you call it - is not always monotonous, and is not without purpose - if you mean the reactionary responses, well, perhaps - but there are people out there who still speak with both clarity and purpose - you can check out [link] - or [link] - there are many others, some you'd find less credible than others.

As for the deviation, well, yes - the point was to attract those who are FOR the war, I'd much rather do that than preach to the converted. Judging by the responses - some of which I've made into a deviation here [link] - I guess that worked.

Numbers? Well, I tend to look them with a great deal of skepticism too, what I do in that case is look at the range of numbers, and regardless of SCALE - the meaning of the events involved.

We can argue for hours about whether or not 500,000 children have died because of Sanctions, and Albright - I saw her on TV - and rather than dispute the number, she mercilessly, recklessly, claimed that it was 'worth it'.

When independent observers place the number of civilian dead in Iraq at over 100,000 - NOT including Fallujah - because the fighting there was so bad they couldn't survey there - and the general media only reports losses in the 10-20,000's. Well, the numbers start to mean something else. When Rumself or was it Cheney? Says 'we don't do body counts'. What the HELL does that mean?

Again, you can dispute the numbers, none of which I've been on the ground close enough to assert - but the meaning of all this is clear.

Anyway, you can get a better look at my sources at my blog - [link]

Thanks for the time.
Reply
:iconmercenarykris23:
mercenarykris23 Featured By Owner May 28, 2006   Photographer
Indeed, politics are quite evil.

Like you, I only jump in when it becomes so bad that it disrupts your normal thought process.

When I meant "rabble-rabble", I did mean reactionary responses, but more specifically, argument and debate spawned by those reactionary responses, and the consequencial mudslinging and name-calling that it devolves into. However, as you stated, there are some who can, and do, wade through the BS and bring forth rational thought and debate. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough people who can do that nowadays.

On the deviation: Not only did you attract pro-war people, but also anti-war people, which, for the former more than the latter anyway, was like leading lambs to the slaughter.

On the numbers: Don't take this personally, but experience tells me that when it comes to war figures, especially casualty counts, anti-war people tend to inflate them while pro-war people tend to subtract, which is exactly why I approach this sort of information with a level of caution. I have yet to find an unbiased source for information of this nature, and I doubt there ever will be one. Your method of taking the numbers and then looking at it from the context of the event seems to be the only reliable way of sorting out this media madness. I'll keep that one in mind from now on.

As for your question:
I think it was Rumsfeld who said "We don't do body counts."
That policy is quite true. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. military rarely had solid evidence of enemy casualties; it was usually estimated using the Law of Probability (e.g. X amount of rounds were fired, so Y amount of enemy should be KIA or WIA)

In the case of the Iraq War, estimating body counts would be a disatrous policy. It would merely be written off as propaganda.
So to answer your question of 'what the HELL does that mean?', he was saying that the military doesn't make official body counts (except for their own casualties) as it is virtually impossible to do this in urban warfare (how can you tell who shot whom?)
I'm not trying to defend or justify what Rumsfeld said, but simply trying to answer a question.

Well, thanks for replying to my comment, and thanks for the intelligent conversation.
Reply
:iconvalis:
valis Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2006  Professional Photographer
LOL - I AM curious - why do you think it was like leading lambs to the slaughter?

Rumsfeld - well - I don't get Americas' attitude to Rumsfeld. At some point, he specifically said he accepted 'full responsibility' for the mess at Abu Ghraib - for instance. I heard that, and in MY mind - well...accepting full responsibility implies criminal liability. I expected a court martial, a dismisal, a resignation at the very, very pathetic least.

No, apparently, it's enough to go to confessional. You get a pat on the back, and you march on and everybody (except the poor bastards at Abu Ghraib) feels better about themselves. I just don't get it.

Thank YOU for replying, and for taking the time to actually read and think, and not just chase me with a big club ;)

As for the latest - I have to admit, as difficult as I've become to surprise, I was still struck by the sheer gall it took for the camp commander at Gauntanemo to declare the recent suicides there as 'an act of war'.

Jeezus.

In any case, I would very much welcome your thoughts on some of my blogging. If you have the time, please check it out at [link]

Thanks again.
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:iconclearblueskies:
clearblueskies Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2006
i think this is a great wallpaper, it actually invokes some decent discussion - i just dont get the amount of people that get offended as soon as someone mentions an opinion against the war :) chill out guys its not objective!
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:iconrafrihart:
RAFrihart Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2005
So much anger! :faint:
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